Why elevation church is bad

Name me one church that has handled everything well. I d not think there is any man alive — especially a young man — who could cope with this degree of adulation and not have his head explode with pride. Do they not see the danger of this?

Sorry David, we must be talking about different books. The point I made about Matt Chandler himself is that it took the pressure from outside his church to galvanise him into doing something. As for his preaching, we will disagree. There is no legalism or self-righteous pride in anything I said. More a worry that this kind of thing will take deeper root here. The point you made about Matt Chandler was that he does not live as a Christian how can you know that?

IN terms of his preaching we do disagree. I have no idea if you are particularly legalistic or not — but the type of comments you were making, most certainly are. Lumping every mega church together is not a healthy thing to do.

Ironically tu quoque was what you were using about Chandler as well as ad hom. David, once again you are making assertions that do not stand scrutiny. I made no comment on how Matt Chandler lives as a Christian. For you to say that I did makes you guilty of the thing you wrongly accuse me of and it is quite reprehensible. It is sometimes quite difficult to know how to answer you because of the way in which you misrepresent what is being said.

I was not picking on one church: you offered Matt Chandler as an example of how mega churches get it right and I was replying to that by urging caution. You then go to the other extreme and say that I am lumping every mega church together. I fail to see where the legalism is in any of my comments. I know of Alistair Begg from his Hamilton Baptist days but not much else.

So it would be a bit premature to throw them on a bonfire — another example of your sly prose which was unwarranted. I have not misrepresented what you said. I am happy though if you wish to withdraw your initial comments. Wonderful — thanks…now I can read it on my Kindle…I have no idea why that did not show on my Amazon page…. Sadly, however, there are also times when you use it to bully, abuse and browbeat. Your lack of apology at very least regarding your amazon remarks has only served to highlight the arrogance and childishness that you displayed in your replies.

The biggest threat to the church comes not from fundamentalist atheists or those of another religion, it comes from within. I would urge you to reread the comments by G White and your own responses to them before prayerfully replying.

Perhaps then a mature and open discussion could then take place. It was not an accusation, nor an attack. It is still priced as such on my Amazon feed…. What is there to apologise for? G White had stated that Matt Chandler was not a good example of teaching or living and then went on to pass on gossip about a particular discipline case in the Village Church. I challenged that because I regard these as serious charges and not to made lightly against a Christian brother.

So far there has been no evidence given for assertion. I agree that the greatest threat to the church comes from false teaching…as you will know if you read this blog. But like John Flavel I regard as a pretty close second the threat of disunity in the body of Christ — not least that caused by those who go around unjustly and wrongly accusing others of false teaching. That would indeed be ridiculous, but it is not my position and it is therefore wrong of you to argue as though it were.

I have reread the comments by G White…and my own responses. And this is my prayerful response after sleeping on it! And now I have to go and read his recommended book — I hope its not as bad as the reviews suggest! Finally, you make the extremely serious accusation that I have caused disunity in the body of Christ by calling Matt Chandler a false teacher and by comparing him with Scott McKenna; both accusations are totally false and completely unacceptable.

I stated that the danger comes from false teachers AND from those who allow the word of God to be compromised by turning a blind eye.

However, Chandler did choose to turn a blind eye to the unbiblical teaching and behaviour of Mark Driscoll, as did Piper and Keller. Despite the considerable influence that they all had, they chose instead to publically endorse him. Chandler only eventually took action as the wheels were about to fall off the Mars Hill bus and, sadly, only when great damage had already been done to the body of Christ.

As I trust that you would not deliberately bear false witness against me, can I ask that, in future, you read any comment very carefully before making such serious accusations? I did read your comments. Given that is neither what I wrote, nor what I think.

Given that you were speaking in the context of my remarks about Chandler, your comments were clearly a warning about him and a warning that his teaching was like a slow growing cancer. If you were not speaking about Chandler then why write it here? And if you do wish to engage here, I would find it helpful if you answered my questions and stick to the point — otherwise such threads just become a string of accusations. Why do you think that that was disgraceful etc but G Whites bracketing of Furtick with Chandler was not?

Oh and sorry about the ironic and sarky remark about being mature enough for you! You were right…that was not very mature…. Could you tell me the difference? Has First Dallas never handled any controversy or discipline case wrong? Why would you equate Chandler with Furtick, but First is ok? Can I assume that you are now withdrawing the remark about Matt Chandler not being a good example of how the gospel should be preached and lived?

David, you try very hard to always get the last word and I knew that the question you asked was loaded. Having said that I followed the mega church scene in the USA I was aware of what was going on in Dallas and in other places too. But again I explained why I chose Dallas.

G White — I am really sorry to read your last reply. Its a nasty wee trick to try and shut someone up by complaining that they always try and have the last word — if they reply then of course you are proved right and can feel self-justified.

Thank you for your answer re the mega church — your reason for mentioning Dallas Baptist Church favourably is because you know a young man who did some good mission work. Its also a nasty wee trick to complain of someone remarks as being provocative, misleading and snide. Its just name calling which again results in self-justification and does not really contribute to any discussion.

Its only your perception and I would deny it. Why not just simply deal with the facts, and leave the name calling aside? You equate him with the false teaching of Furtick and Elevation Church. You also muddied the waters by dropping in a juicy wee bit of gossip about a child sex abuse scandal.

Citing Dallas Baptist because you knew a young man who went there. This is what I mean by legalism in my original post. Someone feels free to go on the internet — post serious accusations and then refuse to substantiate them. It is a serious breach of the ninth commandment to defame someone in this manner. I will always call that out, and I refuse to be intimidated or bullied by those who just cry foul or moan about not being nice. If that is the last word then so be it. But anyone who writes on my blog and brings such serious accusations is going to have to provide evidence, and you will be challenged.

You can either keep silent, go of to somewhere else who will accept your gossip, or repent…. Anyone at least you have persuaded me to read the book — I hope it is not a waste of good time! G White — this is the mega church you are setting up as an example — in opposition to Matt Chandler? As it happens I was sent this video by someone who was praising it…. And the notion that radical Islam is going to defeat the gospel is just as daft.

By the way I got your recommended book. Even though it was only a couple of pounds I regret wasting the money. Tim Keller as an anti-Christian preacher is nonsense…. I will reply to them briefly. To Steven Furtick, I Corinthians is a valid and complete theology on its own. He has a wife, so he gets to have sex. Plain and simple, right?

So, that verse is a lot more complicated when it comes to my life. Instead of acknowledging the complexity of applying the passage to all audiences, Steven Furtick chooses to view it only through the lens of his privilege. Unless Elevation wants to be a church only for privileged people, the narrative will have to change to include people outside the walls of inequality. I believe checking our privilege is the Christian way. This tactic erases an entire group of people:.

Charlotte is a very progressive city for this region of the country. This city has a massive queer population, the second highest in the state. Recent political momentum all across the country and the ongoing discussions of human rights policy in North Carolina have thrown every citizen into this conversation. The evangelical church is certainly divided right now when it comes to how they love LGBTQ people, not just what theological position to hold, but how to apply it practically.

All evidence suggests that this debate is not going away in the church anytime soon. Regardless of our differences, I hope we can all agree on one point. Loving people begins by acknowledging they exist. Simple acknowledgement would seem to be a necessary starting point for love. Steven Furtick acts like his theology is clear and obvious. Then he moves on like everything has been settled.

The problem is, Steven Furtick gave absolutely no practical answers. How should a queer person view their sexuality?

Is there any hope? What is the right course of action for someone in a gender or sexual minority? Though Steven Furtick does preach to straight single adults about abstinence, he still offers them the hope of marriage, reminding them that sex is a wonderful gift in that context. But, while pointing straight singles to a healthy expression of their passion in the future, he has no solution for anyone who is not heterosexual. Furtick leaves LGBTQ people with no answers and no hope, just the sense that something is wrong with them for missing the obvious.

If I sound angry in this article, you have picked up on genuine frustration and discouragement watching all of this unfold. I used to love Elevation. I tithed and gave and volunteered and invited everyone I knew, telling them it was the best church I had ever found. To this day, I believe there are dozens of wonderful people on staff and on volunteer teams there who have a big heart for people and for this city.

Ultimately, this is not an article about a specific person, church, or sermon. This is about systems of oppression that Christians continue to participate in, usually accidentally. My goal here is to call us back to the liberating truth of the Gospel and the justice commanded by God over and over again.

I desperately want them to succeed at loving people like Jesus. He is also an Emerging Leader involved with Human Rights Campaign and Time Out Youth locally, and he is passionate about equality and justice in the intersections of sexuality and spirituality.

You can find Stephen online at stephenlovegrove. Reprinted with permission. Elevation is an off-shoot of the Southern Baptist tradition and nothing more. Furtick and his Cadillac dealer thank you.

I think nearly ALL Christians would be shocked to the core if they could be magically transported back to the time of Jesus or before and had to actually live as they did. Just the level of sanitation, not to mention the stench, would probably kill most of them within a week. It has nothing to do with class, race, sex, marital status etc.

God knows us better than we know ourselves. He also knows how sinning leads to unpleasant and unintended consequences. Of course all of us are sinners, everyone of us regardless of sexual orientation. Who has not lied, coveted, or put some idol ahead of God? The key is whether we continue to rebel against God and His word, or if we are repentant and try to stop from whatever sin we are committing.

God forgives those who confess their failures. That is why Jesus died for us. God truly wants the best for us not only for this lifetime but for all eternity. It is because God loves us that His spirit convicts us.

You were there at that service for a reason. It was not by accident. Also keep in mind, this life is really just an internship anyway.

God is looking for people who appreciate His gift of grace to us enough to obey his Word. He will bless and reward those that place him first if in this life, as well as in eternity.

Since eternity will last a whole lot longer than just this life, it is in each of our own personal best interests to rather than rebel from His word, to keep trying to obey it. It is not always easy, but it is always best. Please search for atheist videos on YouTube and start educating yourself. Religious mythology is the primary source of misery on this planet. Its followers are delusional and grossly insecure, an often catastrophic combination.

The religious leaders always chase fame and fortune for themselves rarely following the example of the Christ they claim to promote. Examples would fill volumes too numerous to count. Great post!!! No Jesus, Disciples or Paul. You having sex with the same sex is not who you are. We are more concerned with the people we are trying to reach than the people we are trying to keep. However, these statements fly in the face of the Biblical witness.

Yes, the church should be focused outward, but at the same time the pastor and the church should be focused inward to care for members i. To say that we must choose one or the other is a false dichotomy not presented in the Bible.

Finally, where have all the Bereans gone Acts ? Why does the coloring page not shock more parents? These are important theological questions for all of us to ask ourselves. Do our practices reveal any of these theological concerns? It may not be our spontaneous baptism plan that lacks confidence in the gospel, just our lack of passion to share it. It may not be a coloring sheet with the pastor on it that shows a misuse of the scriptures, but we all have agendas that we will be tempted to paste a verse over.

You must be logged in to post a comment. We see some deep theological problems in these reported practices, so we want to raise some questions in hopes of helping our churches wrestle with what our practices communicate: 1 Do our practices reveal a lack of confidence in the power of the gospel?

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